Yeah, you wouldn't see it from earth or wherever. You'd have to go there and be surprised. There's also the need for having the right aperature size to be able to resolve stuff. You wouldn't be able to actually see details.
I don't worry about it. Light takes too long to travel so even if there is an entire civilization in the M42 cluster in Hercules existing right now, it would be 10000 years before we would notice it.
Ah, but in my far-future universe we can move about with ease. I admit to not only “soft” sci-fi but in terms of space travel I’m full science-fantasy. My bigger concern is introducing some kind of plot hole where my characters stumble on something unknown, yet they should have been able to see it (extrapolating our technology for telescopes for example).
I like where you’re coming from, recognizing how advanced our understanding of astronomy has become, and wanting to represent sci-fi futures which are honest about our achievements (and therefore believable). My thoughts are: as good as our methods of studying the stars are, isn’t there just too much space out there for us to effectively map? Our blind spots must be enormous. Also, if we want to get into theories as to why there’s ’nobody out there’, I think Dark Forest theory has some merit to it. I can anticipate that distant civilizations might take steps to conceal themselves—especially from us humans. I’ve speculated before on my publication that we could be under a kind of ‘cosmic quarantine.’
Just a couple ideas to chew on there. On the whole, though, I agree with Victor that I don’t think it matters too much. Many of our common sci-fi trips are pretty much outdated anyway, like flying around in starships. Any form of interstellar travel, if we could imagine such a thing ever being possible, would more than likely have to do with bending space itself around us, rather than us traveling across space. But the ramifications of a civilization that could do that are far too strange for us here on Earth, in our current time period, to really grasp. Basically every time somebody warped somewhere, they’d end up in a completely different time than everyone everywhere else! Could you imagine any sort of stable civilization which exists in multiple times, all at once? I, for one, can’t (although that is a very cool idea for a story) and so I think our sci-fi stories reflect the world as we understand it now more than how it might actually be in the future. And that’s okay; we’re telling sci-fi stories as basically a kind of fairy tale to warn one another here and now about the dangers lying in wait, should we continue along our self-destructive paths.
The sci-fi scribes of yesteryear had it easy. They could be good and dead before progress disproved all their notions. ;)
I'm not sure I quite picked up on the particulars of astronomy that you think ruin star faring stories. Is it the particular placement and composition of planets, or the face that we'll probably have accurate telescopes to chart the heavens long before any capability to get there so our intrepid explorers won't have much to do?
The biggest concern to me is casting doubt on the existence of both habitable planets and intelligent civilizations anywhere nearby. It seems like Earth like planets are rare, at least last I checked, and stars, despite being numerous, are scattered by vast distances. Any kind of casual space-flight is going to be unlikely in the near term.
The solution is to either write reality adjacent science-fantasy, where you assume away the light speed limit through warp travel, or to accept it and try to imagine plausible work-arounds, even if those too eventually get disproven.
Regardless, though, stories about a possible future are still stories about *us*, so even if the possible is shown to be impossible, the stories are relevant and valuable!
Basically your second point. If we can see what’s there why go? or what mystery would drive us to go if all is revealed by merely looking (not saying we’re there yet, but give us time). As humans I imagine us wanting to go, to explore, to “see” it even if we can see it from home. It is part of our nature. But how can we stumble upon unknown things, aliens, weird physics or whatever if we already know what we’re seeing. I’m verbally tying myself into knots here but I hope the idea gets through. And yes, I basically write science fantasy. Fast travel between worlds exists with some really bad handwaving. It’s a backdrop for human activity so I can focus on the fun stuff. Well, fun to me. I do however have a basis for my handwaving however loose it may be.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Figured out my keyboard was the issue with carriage returns. All good now (besides looking stupid in the part of the comment I just deleted! Shhh…)
I do think telescopes will never be a substitute for going there in person... if we can get over the cost of the trip. Which is where my pessimism lies.
After all, we have satellites and video cameras and such, but people love to travel around the world.
Thanks for posting. I think it’s an interesting question that is going to force more interesting solutions. Things that are deliberately lost or things that just can’t be seen with our technology. My background is in theoretical physics so I have a lot more leeway with how I integrate science into my stories (it’s much easier to waive away things as due to F-theory or AdS/CFT) but I feel consistency is what matters. Readers can accept some explanations but only if you keep it consistent. Don’t set up a truth in the universe that’s ignored three scenes later.
In my previous science life I was an experimentalist. Theory was never my thing which is probably why I don’t go science heavy in my writing (it feels like too much work!). I agree about consistency, and maybe that is one of my primary concerns. In my far-flung future stories humanity is fractured. Pockets exist in various places and some of them are unaware of each other. But why aren’t they aware if they can still travel from system to system? I have reasons, not all on the page, but give our current capabilities I don’t know if the solutions are believable. Thanks for the comment.
I enjoyed this take I’m not to familiar wit recent innovations in tech on dis topic but I’m interested
Yeah, you wouldn't see it from earth or wherever. You'd have to go there and be surprised. There's also the need for having the right aperature size to be able to resolve stuff. You wouldn't be able to actually see details.
I don't worry about it. Light takes too long to travel so even if there is an entire civilization in the M42 cluster in Hercules existing right now, it would be 10000 years before we would notice it.
Ah, but in my far-future universe we can move about with ease. I admit to not only “soft” sci-fi but in terms of space travel I’m full science-fantasy. My bigger concern is introducing some kind of plot hole where my characters stumble on something unknown, yet they should have been able to see it (extrapolating our technology for telescopes for example).
I like where you’re coming from, recognizing how advanced our understanding of astronomy has become, and wanting to represent sci-fi futures which are honest about our achievements (and therefore believable). My thoughts are: as good as our methods of studying the stars are, isn’t there just too much space out there for us to effectively map? Our blind spots must be enormous. Also, if we want to get into theories as to why there’s ’nobody out there’, I think Dark Forest theory has some merit to it. I can anticipate that distant civilizations might take steps to conceal themselves—especially from us humans. I’ve speculated before on my publication that we could be under a kind of ‘cosmic quarantine.’
Just a couple ideas to chew on there. On the whole, though, I agree with Victor that I don’t think it matters too much. Many of our common sci-fi trips are pretty much outdated anyway, like flying around in starships. Any form of interstellar travel, if we could imagine such a thing ever being possible, would more than likely have to do with bending space itself around us, rather than us traveling across space. But the ramifications of a civilization that could do that are far too strange for us here on Earth, in our current time period, to really grasp. Basically every time somebody warped somewhere, they’d end up in a completely different time than everyone everywhere else! Could you imagine any sort of stable civilization which exists in multiple times, all at once? I, for one, can’t (although that is a very cool idea for a story) and so I think our sci-fi stories reflect the world as we understand it now more than how it might actually be in the future. And that’s okay; we’re telling sci-fi stories as basically a kind of fairy tale to warn one another here and now about the dangers lying in wait, should we continue along our self-destructive paths.
The sci-fi scribes of yesteryear had it easy. They could be good and dead before progress disproved all their notions. ;)
I'm not sure I quite picked up on the particulars of astronomy that you think ruin star faring stories. Is it the particular placement and composition of planets, or the face that we'll probably have accurate telescopes to chart the heavens long before any capability to get there so our intrepid explorers won't have much to do?
The biggest concern to me is casting doubt on the existence of both habitable planets and intelligent civilizations anywhere nearby. It seems like Earth like planets are rare, at least last I checked, and stars, despite being numerous, are scattered by vast distances. Any kind of casual space-flight is going to be unlikely in the near term.
The solution is to either write reality adjacent science-fantasy, where you assume away the light speed limit through warp travel, or to accept it and try to imagine plausible work-arounds, even if those too eventually get disproven.
Regardless, though, stories about a possible future are still stories about *us*, so even if the possible is shown to be impossible, the stories are relevant and valuable!
Basically your second point. If we can see what’s there why go? or what mystery would drive us to go if all is revealed by merely looking (not saying we’re there yet, but give us time). As humans I imagine us wanting to go, to explore, to “see” it even if we can see it from home. It is part of our nature. But how can we stumble upon unknown things, aliens, weird physics or whatever if we already know what we’re seeing. I’m verbally tying myself into knots here but I hope the idea gets through. And yes, I basically write science fantasy. Fast travel between worlds exists with some really bad handwaving. It’s a backdrop for human activity so I can focus on the fun stuff. Well, fun to me. I do however have a basis for my handwaving however loose it may be.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Figured out my keyboard was the issue with carriage returns. All good now (besides looking stupid in the part of the comment I just deleted! Shhh…)
I do think telescopes will never be a substitute for going there in person... if we can get over the cost of the trip. Which is where my pessimism lies.
After all, we have satellites and video cameras and such, but people love to travel around the world.
Thanks for posting. I think it’s an interesting question that is going to force more interesting solutions. Things that are deliberately lost or things that just can’t be seen with our technology. My background is in theoretical physics so I have a lot more leeway with how I integrate science into my stories (it’s much easier to waive away things as due to F-theory or AdS/CFT) but I feel consistency is what matters. Readers can accept some explanations but only if you keep it consistent. Don’t set up a truth in the universe that’s ignored three scenes later.
In my previous science life I was an experimentalist. Theory was never my thing which is probably why I don’t go science heavy in my writing (it feels like too much work!). I agree about consistency, and maybe that is one of my primary concerns. In my far-flung future stories humanity is fractured. Pockets exist in various places and some of them are unaware of each other. But why aren’t they aware if they can still travel from system to system? I have reasons, not all on the page, but give our current capabilities I don’t know if the solutions are believable. Thanks for the comment.